Curse

Lord Sojar · Mar 23, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

Interesting. Hope you didn't take my comment offensively.. (is this time for you to point to your user title? lolz)

So you have a HD5870 rather than nVidia card.. you waiting to see what nVidia are going to release and the possibly going for it? Or just going to stick with what you have for awhile? Just curious

So then CFX 5870's whooping SLI nVidia's is purely because the cards can put out more grunt then?

I was reading reviews of the 5850 & 5870 at Toms Hardware, and the benchmarks they posted as well as the commentary seems to suggest CFX was much improved.. and that ATI's handling of AA was superior to nVidia's.

alth admittidly I wasn't looking at how the performance scaled - ie how much did CFX improve performance over individual cards.. at least that's what I believe your inferring to.. that even because CFX 5870's do beat sli nvidia cards.. sli nvidia cards give better performance gain over individual cards.. or am i completely missing the boat? lolz

With my current turd system I can't run any AA or AF without the system boing blah.. lolz Guess that's a fault of old tech cards and unreliable system issue's more than anything.. lolz

Elder III - one can only hope. lolz

Because of my current undertaking in learning C++ to a higher degree, and my work, an nVidia card would better suit my needs. CUDA, native C++ support, and Nexus are the actual factors influencing that decision. I find myself gaming less and less these days, and using my GPU for different tasks (accelerating specific tasks)

I'm actually looking to write a CUDA app plugin for MatLab (a necessary evil which I hate with a passion... Mathematica is vastly superior) for fluid dynamics (specifically working on a theory that I would like to submit to the Journal of Fluid Mechanics at some point in the future) An nVidia card would allow me to do this in a much faster manner, and perhaps transfer that preliminary data to the Coates Cluster (which is becoming an antique) Hell, I might just get a personal Tesla unit for myself to do some of the work.... provided I can get said research funding.

As for why I mentioned the bit about Crossfire, you are correct in your assumption.

Crossfire scaling is absolutely pitiful. Any ATi user can inform you of that sad truth unless they have the filthy stench of die hard fan boy emanating from their pores. The CFX HD5870s beat nVidia's current offerings because a single HD5870 can almost beat or tie a GTX295 in every test. So two of them will obvious destroy it (as a GTX295 is two cards already, so it's already scaling, and two GTX295s is 4 cards, which doesn't scale well AT ALL)

SLi technology scales far better than Crossfire, in short. So yes, your hunch was correct.

Kamatsu · Mar 27, 2010, 08:55 AM // 08:55

BTW Rahja - good luck getting that funding mate

Hmm, pre-order prices for the new nVidia cards..

EVGA GeForce GTX470 1280MB - $549.00
EVGA GeForce GTX480 1536MB - $829.00

That puts the 480 way out of my price range. The 470 is definitely a possibility cost wise.. It would mean a different MB obviously.. lolz But since I was considering going with the HD5870 which was only ~$50 cheaper.. looking at benchmarks tho.. the HD5870 does perform better.. but the 470 does appear to be better than the HD5850... (which is also ~$110-170 cheaper..)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-480,2585.html

I'm not sure if the small performance gains the 470 gives over the 5850 (at least in those benchmarks) is worth the extra $110-170.. combined with the fact the 470 uses more power and is a lot hotter than the 5850 (96^c for the 470, 82^c for the 5850). And the fact that the HD5870 generally beats the 470. and is cheaper as well..

Any thoughts about this?

gone · Mar 27, 2010, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

EVGA GeForce GTX470 1280MB - $549.00
EVGA GeForce GTX480 1536MB - $829.00

Ouch.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...+gtx&x=15&y=31

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...iption=480+gtx

Me? I'm staying away until a few revisions are done.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...0-480-review/1

Kamatsu · Mar 27, 2010, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Yeah, the price is very ouch. For both cards - esp considering the performance gain for the 470 really isn't that remarkable imo..

The thing that concern's me - reading the reviews.. they've had to scale back the GF100.. so your not even getting the full potential of the card/chipset/gpu/whatever that's possible...

Which means in the near future we can expect a whole new set of cards.. with the full GF100 unlocked (or if they are greedy boostards.. they will release a series of cards, each unlocking a small bit more till it's fully unlocked).

Like the 470/480 are just guinea-pig test cards to sucker in pp who must have the latest and greatest... just to sucker punch em in a month or 2 or 3 with the release of the next set of cards.. where the full GF100 is unlocked...

Elder III · Mar 27, 2010, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Based on guru3d's review both cards look pretty nice, esp the 480 - loads of horsepower and performance ability, the price is pretty steep though. I'm concerned about the heat, hopefully some aftermarket coolers will come out to aleviate that problem.... very high power draw too - Overall a pricier way to go compared to ATI.... beefier PSU and $500/video card - but if you have the cash the performance is unrivaled.

moriz · Mar 27, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

GTX 470 is horrible card, at least on a value proposition point of view. despite what guru3d said (they probably got paid off by nvidia for that review. yuck), the GTX 470 compares very poorly to the 5850. virtually the same performance, draws 70% more power, runs 20C hotter, and a good deal more expensive. unless you specifically need the GTX 470 for its GPGPU and CUDA capabilities, stick with the 5850.

Kamatsu · Mar 27, 2010, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Elder III - yes, if you have the cash to throw around then your choices are the GTX480 or HD5970 (the HD5970 beats the GTX480 btw..). As for the GTX470 - the performance gain over the HD5850 is negligible imo - in some benchmarks it's worse, in some it's a clear winner and in some it's tied.

Don't see how paying an extra $110-170 for the GTX470 would be worth it, esp considering the higher power usage & higher heat issue's that it has. The other bigger issue for me concerning the GTX470 is.. I could buy a HD5870 for cheaper than the GTX470.. and the HD5870 outperformed the GTX470..

So in the end, why spend $549 on a GTX470, when I can buy a HD5870 for $499.. so save $50 and get a card that outperforms the more expensive card (that's a sale price, normal price is $539.. still cheaper than the GTX470)

Moriz - That's my concern right now really. Since I'm replacing the whole system.. and I do have a limited budget.. the GTX470 does outperform the HD5850 generally (but usually by only a small margin), but not the HD5870... and both ATI's cards are cheaper.

So, looking at cost, performance, my budget, etc.. My options for video card seem to be:

ATI HD5870
Gigabyte Radeon HD5870 Ultra Durable 1GB - $499
XFX Radeon HD5870 - $539

ATI HD5850
XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX Edition - $369
Gigabyte Radeon HD5850 Overclocked Edition 1GB - $379
Sapphire Radeon HD5850 - $379
XFX Radeon HD5850 Black Edition - $419
Sapphire Radeon HD5850 TOXIC 1GB - $439

I am considering trying to see if I can CFX later, maybe in 6-12 months. All depends on budget, if I feel I need it, etc.

Any thoughts/opinions on above cards? I know the non factory oc'ed cards will likely be better for oc'ing myself if I want to.. so if that was a concern, what would you go for? if oc'ing wasn't a concern, what then?

Jumping Is Uselss · Mar 28, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

I would go for what ever is the cheapest.

Something I stumbled upon on newegg. A Sapphire 5850 for $279, only for the weekend though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-884-_-Product

A little off topic, but can someone explain to me what is done in a factory oc? Is it any different from a non-factory oc?

Elder III · Mar 28, 2010, 03:13 AM // 03:13

[QUOTE=kamatsu;5095485]Elder III - yes, if you have the cash to throw around then your choices are the GTX480 or HD5970 (the HD5970 beats the GTX480 btw..). As for the GTX470 - the performance gain over the HD5850 is negligible imo - in some benchmarks it's worse, in some it's a clear winner and in some it's tied.

Don't see how paying an extra $110-170 for the GTX470 would be worth it, esp considering the higher power usage & higher heat issue's that it has. The other bigger issue for me concerning the GTX470 is.. I could buy a HD5870 for cheaper than the GTX470.. and the HD5870 outperformed the GTX470..

So in the end, why spend $549 on a GTX470, when I can buy a HD5870 for $499.. so save $50 and get a card that outperforms the more expensive card (that's a sale price, normal price is $539.. still cheaper than the GTX470)

Well, I pretty much agree with you - other than that the prices on newegg for the x470 are $350 + shipping, not $550 - big difference there. Granted that is still more than the 5850 which can be had almost any day for $300, uses lots less power, is cooler running and does not require you to use SLI/Crossfire to have 3 monitors in use (big factor there for some ppl for sure). Now the x480 is listed at $500 or so and when compared to the 5870 at $430 or so I think it's worth it --- IF you have good cooling in your case, IF you have a beefy PSU, & IF you only use 2 or less monitors. Now the 5970 is a bloody $700 bucks and not worth it imo. Of course, prices could change allot in the next 1-2 weeks, and they are sure to change in the favor of the consumer, which is always a good thing.

In any case I'm sticking with my dual 4850s until there's something they can't handle on decent settings at 1080p... which hasn't happened yet.

* oh, as far as factory overclocked GPUs go - it's usually more money for something you can do yourself. Often they do have a better cooler on them, but usually you can achieve the same results in a few minutes and save $25 or so. Just remember that if you buy one that is already overclocked at the factory, it probably won't have much room left for you to do any oc'in yourself.

Kamatsu · Mar 28, 2010, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Unfortunately..Taken directly from newegg:

"Newegg.com does not offer International shipping options at this time." (apart from Puerto Rico that is.. lolz)

I appreciate that the prices at newegg are cheaper than what I'm quoting - even after converting US dollars to Au dollars, however I can't order them as they are a US company that does not ship internationally.. and seeing as I live in Australia.. that precludes me shopping from newegg (as they only ship internationally to Puerto Rico).

Hope I'm not coming across narky or unappreciative of your advice/thoughts/etc - I do appreciate it

Any thoughts about the HD5850 & HD5870 cards I listed? (and remember, prices I quote are Aussie dollar prices... and sadly I can't buy from newegg.. which ppl seem to love)

Go for cheaper HD5850.. or pay a bit extra for a HD5870? (the 2 cards listed are the ones in my price range, there are other cards.. but they are too expensive)

Jumping Is Uselss · Mar 28, 2010, 12:05 PM // 12:05

I keep forgetting Newegg doesn't ship internationally.

Go with the cheapest 5850 on your list. It can handle a 19"-22" monitor easily.